wieght trainig for newby's

Hi all,I'm new to this site,and read some intresting stuff so far.I was wondering if anyone could help me dispell some of the contridictions I'm hearing.I want to get a bit bigger and more toned,I've been doing a little grappling and jogging (not to much as I work rolling continental shifts which really knacker up any classes I can get to!!)Anyway I've just started a wieghts prog which is to done 2 days apart,with no cardio as I've been told it burns muscle,I know this sounds stupid but will I put on fat as well as muscle if I don't do cardio?The reason I ask is because I not long bought a book on changing yourself throught,diet,cardio and wieghts and in that it says you should do your cardio and weights 3 x a week on the same day,where as my gym instructor tells me not to do any cadio.I'm more inclined to listen to my instructor as he has trained the leicester tigers strength coach,and is in brill shape himself.HELP!!!

Andy w wrote:I know this sounds stupid but will I put on fat as well as muscle if I don't do cardio?

Most probably. If your goal is building muscle then you need an excess of calories in order for your muscles to grow, meaning you will naturally put a bit of fat on as well as the new muscle. Nothing to worry about as you can get rid of it later.

As far as the no cardio thing it all depends on how much you're eating and whats most important to you. If your not eating enough and doing cardio your efforts in the gym will be a waste of time because your burning off the extra calories you needed in order for your muscles to grow. The truth is it's VERY hard to put muscle on and lose bodyfat. Usually the only time muscle growth and fat loss can occur together is when someone is a complete beginner to resistance work or if they're taking illegal supplements. Any other time it's too difficult to know the EXACT amont of calories you would need to avoid the excess weight gain and still pack on muscle. Over time though the more muscle you gain the more efficient your body will become at burning fat.

It's common for someone to do a bulk followed by a cut to get rid of the fat that was gained on the bulk, do a quick search on google or whatever and there will be plenty of avise on how to do it properly.

If you are worried about getting unfit just do a 20 min run 2-3 x a week or something to maintain fitness levels, just make sure you are eating enough so as to not cancel out your muscle gain. Otherwise yeah knock the cardio on the head for a bit and just concentrate on getting enough calories.

Last thing, what did you mean by the routine two days apart ? As in a 2 day split ie Day 1. Upper body Day2. ( 2 days later ) Lower body ? Or just a full body routine twice a week ? Can't really advise what would be best for you as I don't know what days you have free etc but I see a lot of beginners getting good results from a basic 3 day push/pull split. I'm sure a 2 day will work fine though, just a thought.

Alex will be able to advise you further I'm sure but read a few of the weight training / diet threads to get an idea of how much protein etc you should be eating.

Hope that helped a bit.

Andy w wrote:Hi all,I'm new to this site,and read some intresting stuff so far.I was wondering if anyone could help me dispell some of the contridictions I'm hearing.I want to get a bit bigger and more toned,I've been doing a little grappling and jogging (not to much as I work rolling continental shifts which really knacker up any classes I can get to!!)Anyway I've just started a wieghts prog which is to done 2 days apart,with no cardio as I've been told it burns muscle,I know this sounds stupid but will I put on fat as well as muscle if I don't do cardio?The reason I ask is because I not long bought a book on changing yourself throught,diet,cardio and wieghts and in that it says you should do your cardio and weights 3 x a week on the same day,where as my gym instructor tells me not to do any cadio.I'm more inclined to listen to my instructor as he has trained the leicester tigers strength coach,and is in brill shape himself.HELP!!!

What's the book's name?

I would err on the side of doing cardio rather than not, from personal experience (of doing the opposite!)

jamietaylor wrote:
As far as the no cardio thing it all depends on how much you're eating and whats most important to you. If your not eating enough and doing cardio your efforts in the gym will be a waste of time because your burning off the extra calories you needed in order for your muscles to grow.

True...ish

The truth is it's VERY hard to put muscle on and lose bodyfat. Usually the only time muscle growth and fat loss can occur together is when someone is a complete beginner to resistance work or if they're taking illegal supplements.

It's actually not that uncommon if you're training smart, plus didn't he say he was a complete beginer? I know when I followed Precision Nutrition with large portion sizes I managed it, without even trying!

If you are worried about getting unfit just do a 20 min run 2-3 x a week or something to maintain fitness levels, just make sure you are eating enough so as to not cancel out your muscle gain. Otherwise yeah knock the cardio on the head for a bit and just concentrate on getting enough calories.

I think that's a bit short sighted - there are too many benefits from cardio training to view it as a 'waste of calories'. If that was a problem his post-workout shake could easily replace all the calories burnt.

The books name is the TRUTH by Frank Sepe.
So if I do say something like 1 interval sprinting training a week,plus wieghts and a protein shake everyday to keep the calories up I should be able to bulk up a little with not much fat gain?
Jamie,you were saying about more calorie intake does that mean eating loads of really healthy stuff,or eating a little more fatty foods?sorry to sound thick mate but I really am a novice to this.

I might get shot down for this, but if you really are as much of a novice as you say you are then clean up your diet first, try and remove all rubbish like crisps, chocolate, soft drinks, limit alcohol (or cut it out altogether is best).
Then if you try to eat non processed foods, sticking to things like lean red meat, chicken breasts, eggs, brown rice/pasta etc. Try not to eat food from a packet basically. That will put you in a far better position than many people straight away.

As for training, if you are new to it you should make significant gains in size and strength on any program which involves reasonably intense weight training (this is the bit where people might disagree..). It depends what you are trying to achieve, but I made excellent progress in my first six months on a really basic whole body weight training routine.

It was something like three sets of 8 - 10 reps of the following

Squats
Barbell row
Barbell bench press
DB shoulder press
Tricep push down
Calf raises
Ab work

In terms of progression I just tried to do more reps or lift more weight than the previous session. I didn't do any additional cardio in the gym and stayed lean, but I was quite active cycling to the gym etc and using the pushbike regularly just to get around.

Just get stuck in and see how you feel, in my opinion what holds people back the most is thinking too much about their training in the short term, at the stage your at, if you get someone good to show you how to do the exercises properly, eat cleanly in small portions every three hours or so you should be good to go. for the first two years I was training I basically ate clean but as much as I wanted and I kept putting on decent quality weight until I let the eating get out of hand and was doing stupid things like having two dinners and making shakes with a whole cheesecake in! It put the weight on me and I got strong, but also fat!

consistency is the key in my eyes, if you can keep a clean diet on track and keep training you should make progress no matter what. Get plenty of rest, try and get 8 hours a night and while your in the gym train hard and don't waste time, get in, get out and do something else!

Apologies if that was a bit rambling, but the best way is to get training and keep researching. It's hard for people to tell you what to do as we're all still learning how we best react. We won't know how you respond to training.

I'm going to go and wait to get shot down now! Good luck!

In terms of geting unfit, I don't know if I mentioned it above but I recently moved to Luton an concentrated solely on powerlifting style training, but training hard 4 times a week with weights. I was asked to do the cardiff half marathon and said yes. In order for it not to interfere with the powerlifting I didn't train any specific distance runnig leading up to it, just ran a couple of times in the week coming up to it for 3 and 5 miles and finished in under 2 hours (not rocket speed I know!) but I was able to run the whole distance and was pleased with the result.

Anyway, my point is that if you train hard even just with weights your general fitness will increase (particularly if you're new to this) so don't worry too much if you're not training for anything in particular competition wise. Most training is good training I reckon..

I completely agree on the beginner gaining muscle and losing fat thing, thats why I mentioned it.

[quote]
I think that's a bit short sighted - there are too many benefits from cardio training to view it as a 'waste of calories'. If that was a problem his post-workout shake could easily replace all the calories burnt.[quote]

I guess your right but I see so many people failing due to a lack of calories, I tell them to eat more and they say " Man, I'm eating like a horse " etc etc They obviously aren't or they wouldn't be maintaining weight.

I think it just makes it that much easier for them if they struggle to get adequate calories, as he is a beginner he isn't going to be an expert on counting calories etc and may just maintain weight and be a few hundred cals off what he would have needed to gain. At the end of the day benefits from cardio can be gotten at a later date, whats most important now isn't health benfits, its muscle size !!! I agree though if you can get the cals easy enough then theres nothing stopping you doing cardio.

Some good advice from Matt there, can't really go wrong with any of that. Only other thing I would add in is to keep a diary of EVERYTHING !!!!! Journal on here would be perfect for you mate and I wouldn't mind helping where I can as I'm sure everyone else would too

Log book/diary is definetley a must for making progress.

jamietaylor wrote:At the end of the day benefits from cardio can be gotten at a later date, whats most important now isn't health benfits, its muscle size !!!

Really, you don't think cardio can help with muscle gain?

What about:

- Increased capillarisation of the muscle tissue
- Increased transport of nutrients
- Increased recovery ability
- etc...

Alex Gold wrote:

jamietaylor wrote:At the end of the day benefits from cardio can be gotten at a later date, whats most important now isn't health benfits, its muscle size !!!

Really, you don't think cardio can help with muscle gain?

What about:

- Increased capillarisation of the muscle tissue
- Increased transport of nutrients
- Increased recovery ability
- etc...

Yes I am well aware of the physiological adaptations to cardio training but what good is it if he's not eating enough to grow ? Thats my point. I'm simply stating if you eat enough then fine do it as there is of course a LOT of benefits from cardio. If he is struggling to eat enough ( and lets face it Alex most people do. I have worked in gyms for 8 years and know how hard people find it to get adequate calories to fuel muscle growth ) then it's more than likely going to halt muscle gains.

To be honest it really wont make a huge difference whether he does or doesnt.

It's not like you hear people saying " Yeah my guns have exploded since I started doing cardio " is it ? ....But you do hear " Since I started eating like a madman I have really packed some size on "

The majority of the time if people try to do both they usually end up maintaining weight and going nowhere.

In my experience I agree. I get brilliant gains in strength etc when I concentrate on getting plenty of food and rest. After I finished my placement last year and had some time to concentrate on eating plenty every one was worried that I was on something naughty! The difference it makes is unreal.

Alex, do you not get any sort of cardio benefit from training hard with weights or is it a completely different system you're working? Probably some sort of overlap I guess?